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Discussion: Reselling/Trading Art


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ooof ill copy paste what i said in Discord xd

 

As an artist, it kinda feel like -> :k3:

since youve put so many effort into making something personal for your client but when not even a month is passed and he/she is asking to be resold. It feels like your work wasnt even worth to be keeping.

But thats my opinion tho I agree it can be resell as an object like Moose said but sometimes its kinda eh when you see that work getting passed from the one to the other..

 

well i could also see it as "I already got the money so idc" but i dont feel it that way ...

 

but i also feel like... when buyers buy it in idk ... 0.01 seconds? but then resell a week later it kinda breaks my heart you know...

when it gets passed to someone else that quickly even after that much effort for waiting for a artwork not giving others a chance.

But when they re-sell the piece, its not the same as when buying straight from the artist to support your artist but you'll be supporting a reseller. as a artist i am glad someone is liking it but not in this way tho :\

 

on trading art for art (already bought art)

well... i feel 50/50 on that its either my art is on par with the traded art or mine was less worth/not their liking and made some good trade to get something they might like better

but since i dont judge that much im more into the "on par with the traded art"

 

but ... like when you're an artist but sell multiple "prints" since its fanart or not personal commissioned, I dont mind when you resell the print item you've bought straight from the artist since its not "personal"

 

I just feel this towards premades/customs not mass sale

 

also resellers sell em lower than when you buy at the OG artist

since most of the artists dont allow them to sell higher than the original price

and to get "rid" of em, resellers sometimes lower the worth

which hurts me even more

 

IDK its just my opinion

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in my opinion: i'm rubbed the wrong way by reselling for multiple reasons but most relevant to me, reselling does have the potential to rob the original artist of new business. i view it as--where somebody could've come to me to get an original piece, they bought a resold version instead and the reseller profits.

 

i also agree with the notion that as an artist, hearing that someone wants to resell your art (no matter how innocent) does hurt a little, as it feels like something we worked so hard on for you has lost it's worth and value, and now it's just being tossed around.

 

100% would love to read opinions of opposing views though 

 

edit: i just want to add, it's a very unique concept in the art community to resell art without paying royalties to the original artist. for example, you see the walmart logo right? someone had to have made that, and in order for walmart to now take that logo and put it on products to sell and profit upon, they had to pay the original artist a heavy royalty. 


Edited by Ariana
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Also inserting my opinion from the discord, although just slightly beefed up:

 

I don’t really agree with reselling, especially when it comes to IMVU dp’s. I feel like some people sort of use it as a 30 day free trial, get bored, and resell to get their money back and I'm sure it’s hurtful to artists, even a bit. I don’t personally support it or buy from people who resell unless it’s an actual adopt, as I am a buyer not an artist. Dps imo can cause way too much drama, what If they don’t delete their version and continue using it? I feel like it causes stupid avoidable situations. So therefore, I don't necessarily like the idea of reselling on a platform such as Art Haven because it's not directly supporting artists, I think resells should honestly be left to discord servers with the proper permission.

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Speaking from a 'my art is crappy IMVU edits so it's never gonna be in the realm of reselling but I have some thoughts' point of view. I don't agree with reselling for a few different reasons but firstly from a practical standpoint because it becomes difficult to legitimise proof that artists have given their consent for their artwork to be resold. I think it opens a world where people can be profiting from someone else's art without the artists consent and that buyers may fall into a trap of purchasing things without fully checking that is actually responsibly for sale.

 

I also believe that it can make tracking artwork difficult for an artist. Let's say the artist sold their artwork to person A and has in their rules that reselling is allowed, 10 months down the line person A resells the artwork to person B and the artist isn't aware and then sees person B using said artwork and files a DMCA violation or approaches this person for using their artwork without permission. I understand that it's an artist's personal choice but I personally wouldn't like not having awareness of where that artwork was. 

 

Finally, I think in allowing resells artists are handing out a fair amount of trust. The initial owner still has that artwork with their text on it and what is really to stop them from using it again in future after reselling it? Also, when does a reselling chain stop? Can person A use it for 6 months then decide that they don't want it anymore, sell it to person B who uses it for a few weeks then doesn't seek the original artist's permission to resell again because they got it through a resell initially so they then resell again to person C etc etc. How many people in the end have access to that artwork? I know it's an extreme example but it's risky to me.

 

I'm sorry that this isn't very articulately written, my fingers are cold so I can't be bothered with proper grammar and such. I also am aware I come across sounding very 'I am anti-people, I don't trust people' but well some people suck.

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In my opinion,  if its a edit that i did for someone and they didn't like it a month later and sold it to someone else i would be upset because you put art and love into it.

the only reason maybe if your Original character that you commissioned a lot doesn't fit you anymore and you need to the money for something else. but other than that i disagree to reselling unless its a good reason. which most of the time isn't. and if you do resell the oc or the character at least let the artist know that you bought the art from because if they do not know then it can cause real legal issues with dmca and stuff depending how bad it is.

 

I think reselling oc's or art is not my thing but i can understand why if you do it for the right reason. if your doing it because your bored thats pretty much disrespect for the artist that made that just for You only no one else thats why when you read the rules of the tos when you commission them  80 % or less will say personal use only but i can understand about  if you ask permission and stuff but that;s side of  the point.

 

So. the point is  that they dont want you to make profit of you selling or doing anything of the sort in my thought of it that its not only hurting the artist but it makes them feel they didn't do enough good job.

 

SO my conclusion no. i disagree about reselling oc's unless that oc that comes with the art is is toxic for you or doesn't fit you or mean alot and that happens but as long you do it correctly and consider the artist feelings yes then if not then no i diagree.

 

This is how i feel and my thoughts on it ♥

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First and foremost, I never would resell art I receive, before I purchase my art I'm already confident with that I like it in a way that I can reuse it a year later would I want to and that is now a piece or character belonging to me and only me personally.

 

Second, I buy art because I want to support my favorite artists and I plan long before I buy a piece from them that I want one to make sure I can afford. :lazesupersxy:But that's just how I deal with buying art, I make sure that any purchase I make is worth it in my opinion because it is a personal purchase that matches me. 

 

For me as an artist, reselling art sounds like administration hell would many pieces be resold. It'd make me uncomfortable having to dig files up to redo the watermark and checking the price, and there's no possible proof that the reseller will destroy the watermarked art they've been given in the first place. :wawot:

 

Ofcourse it is always up to the individual artist to accept or decline! :thumbsup: There could be many more reasons for a resell, including a private one. I personally state in my shop that I do not allow for my work to be resold. And would anybody kindly ask me, I would probably charge for a namechange and explicitly ask them to state that they will delete the old files that they had received upon purchasing my art.

 

 

 


Edited by Martinus
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Same with Martini above me with bought art from others

 

When i buy art, its because i like it but its also because I want to support the artists aswell. I would never resell one of the art i have bought. Even if i have financial issieus i would never use my babies as a goldsafe to earn money from by reselling em. 🤔 they are precious to me personally. 

 

I still even use art ive got 3 a 4 yrs ago xd 

 

Reselling never occured to me till when i saw a lot were reselling pieces of artists i support.

 

 

I also agree with the point Pey has been giving.

What if, you stated "you can resell the bought artwork" in your rules

 

After half a year, the art is prob at Person F. 🤣🤣🤣

When you think its at Person B.

 

Its all just a big hassle


Edited by Mattie
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Personally as both an artist and a person who owns a ton of ocs I don't see the problem with it, however it does tend to get tricky and my view on it can shift depending on the situation.

 

If I create a character and end up spending a lot of money on art for said character, just to later not wanting to use it anymore for whatever reason I usually tend to either resell or trade it for something I could use. I'd feel bad letting the character stay unused for eternity when there are others who really badly want the character and to give it a new home.

 

Same for adoptables, these are often usually allowed to be resold or rehomed (talking about deviantart, furaffinity, twitter community etc) and nobody really has an issue with it as long as you sell it for the same or lower price than you got it for (unless extra art etc).

 

Then there comes to IMVU and Arthaven. Here it's somewhat of a "grey" area to resell or trade art, as most of these are usually stand-alone pieces that were either already made (premades) and sold or customs that can be a part of an already pre-existing character or a character they bought previously. I guess the whole idea behind these is that they were made without the purpouse of having it as a character / oc, unlike adoptables who were made for that exact reason. 

 

Overall I don't really see the issue with rehoming a character (either it be for money, art, another character or gifting it) that you have put a lot of money into, as when you do buy a piece you get the right to the piece (in most cases), but I can at the same time see where it would make others feel uncomfortable as artists.

 

Also edit (felt I had to add this in) 

There are also people who create or buy characters and buy art with intent of profiting of them in the long run (like stocks kinda?) and this I'm 100% against


Edited by Susie
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As both an artist and buyer of art I'm not against it. I have experienced not being so attached to art I bought a couple years ago, should i just let it collect dust in a folder somewhere on my laptop for it to either be deleted at the end or never be looked again, or should I be able to make someone else happy with that same art piece I bought back when that brought me joy? My personal answer would be the latter of those. 

 

I buy art because I love it, but I also know I'm not going to be attached to it for the rest of my life or I will one day want to leave this community, with the possibility to be able to resell my art or even give it away to those who will experience happiness from it just like I did. 

 

I'm very hesitant when it comes to buying art from people who don't allow resells. I understand the artist perspective but lets say you bought a pizza or a car from someone. None of them are ever going to tell you "you can't resell or trade this" because you bought it with your own money. I get that there is an attachment and a lot of effort put into making art, I'm the same way but at the end of the day the art belongs to the person, who bought it from you. Some people might just sell or trade it without you, as the artist, knowing it. So I think, I personally allow it with the hope that people will tell me when they resell or trade, so I know who owns it and where it ends up. 

 

I can see where it's a dilemma but yeah. I had this same conversation with a well-known artist on DeviantArt, who buys art herself, where she feels it's a ridiculous rule seeing as she bought the art, therefor she owns it and can do with it as she pleases. 

please don't hate me, I'm just giving my honest opinion. 


Edited by Cupsu
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For me the "premades" i see it as a stand alone portrait you may use and not really as adopt like on DA or FA.

 

When you yourself created the character and reselling em later is your choice because it is your design. So i dont really see a problemo

 

But when it comes at bought portraits(premades), I see it as "personal" and not like a kid youve just adopted you gonna send away anyways. 

Its like you bought an painting but send em to the marketplace because it doesnt fit with the color in your livingroom anyways.

 

With adopts i see it as kids tho. 

You adopt literally a whole character. All the art you've commissioned is of that "character" only. They may be having diff outfits but .. thats what kidss do ... right? Changing clothes, having a story, emotion, personality etc. 

 

Reselling an adopt is like sending em away HAHAHAHHA

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Idk if my opinion would matter but here is my take on it. First I don't make art but I do buy art for about 10 years way before I joined arthaven.i that time I never resold any of the art I paid for. How I see it I literally think to myself how long am I going to use the art? I'm I going to use this again in the future? I think about this before I even buy premade or buying oc.( Sometimes I think to much and it sold xD) in sever on discord I have trading a really old art piece for the same artist artwork. But re selling I see lot of it on discord severs. and I do get the artist standpoint that you know you put your time and effort your soul into making this and then a few months later somebody wants to resell my friend who was on IMVU spent $70 on a piece to be made in less than a month she sold it for like $15 I could not believe it.Kind of makes me wonder what's the point of putting in so much money if you're just going to resell it. As buyer point of view I think it up to artist of they will allow it.

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18 minutes ago, Alismora said:

I would really suggest that both of you do some research on this so that you understand why a lot of artists are against this, and why a lot of artists say buyers abuse them.  It's not selfish of artists to want to protect themselves and the work they do. 

 

 

I understand and it's fair if an artist wants to protect themselves and their art, but what if that art just ends up being tossed away and deleted at the end, when the buyer doesn't want it any longer? Would you as an artist want that? I don't know. I personally wouldn't. I think that would be a sad scenario and a scenario I know a lot of people ends up having when an artist doesn't allow resells or trades. 

 

It's only my personal opinion that I find it a tad bit selfish. I'm not lashing out at artists or anything because I can just let everyone else buy from them instead and look at the art from afar, which I'm fine with. I know of more people who do find it selfish too but most likely wont speak up about it because of the fear of being put on the blast. I see this opinion of mine is unpopular, but it's one a lot of people have too. :aww:

 

But also if someone deletes a piece, how much worth is the time that was put into making it when nobody will see it put to use ever again? I think for me it's more a matter of letting the art live on to put smiles on peoples' faces rather than just being tossed into a void. 


Edited by Cupsu
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8 minutes ago, Alismora said:

 

I actually wanted to pull this out and discuss this because this actually isn't correct.  This is a common misconception in a lot of art communities, people assume because they paid for it they own it outright and have legal control over it.  When you buy art, you're buying the right to use the art, not the copyright of the art!  The artist of an art piece always retains 100% intellectual rights to their art, custom or premade!  

 

There are only a few exceptions to this, such as if the artist legally agrees to diminish their rights as part of a contractual agreement, and this can only be enforced in writing.  This is usually a lengthy process and not many artists do this unless they are creating art for brands or companies, and these contracts typically have the artist being paid anytime the art is used for something new.

 

The artist still has full rights and can legally revoke your usage rights to the art at any time, though most only do this if you've violated a rule or guideline they typically have for people who purchase their art to use.


I initially thought reselling/ trading was okay because the commissioner owns the character until i read this. I should change my ToS real quick djsjsjd.

 

what i also learned from this is since you’re buying for the rights to use and not the copyright then reselling would result to copyright infringement (correct me if i’m wrong) 

 

 

 

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I think its better to have personal permission to resell from the original artist to not break any copyright rule...

BUT its better like, an server on Discord of the original Artist him/herself where she/he created a re-sell channel especially

so that he/she can keep up who got what art (keep track)

 

and if want namechanges on the art can ask the artist there personally i guess to avoid confusion

 


Edited by Mattie
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30 minutes ago, Alismora said:

 

 

I actually wanted to pull this out and discuss this because this actually isn't correct.  This is a common misconception in a lot of art communities, people assume because they paid for it they own it outright and have legal control over it.  When you buy art, you're buying the right to use the art, not the copyright of the art!  The artist of an art piece always retains 100% intellectual rights to their art, custom or premade!  
 

 

I feel kinda stupid now for not already knowing this as an artist, and I really appreciate you for correcting me! I guess this is the reason why some artists have rules about commercial use etc as well? Which again is a whole different topic than reselling but still important as well. 

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10 minutes ago, Alismora said:

No one is going to blast anyone here for an opinion or it'll get deleted, so don't worry.  I still think your opinion is based on misinformation, regardless of how many others hold a similar one.  Opinions like these are why the laws were created in the first place, so I won't lie and say it's a bit upsetting to see people still think like this.  The idealogy of it being better than a piece being deleted is no different than a painting that is purchased and is put into storage because the owner no longer wants to use it.  It's feasible, but not enough to infringe upon the rights of an artist.

 

 

I may have been misinformed but even then I most likely would have the same opinion as I have right now on this topic. I think when it's stated that an artist puts so much time and effort into making a personal piece for someone, but that same art piece will be deleted in the end if the artist doesn't allow it to be trade/resold/gifted, it doesn't say much about the time that was put into it when it's tossed or put away for eternity. Don't get me wrong - the time put into art is valuable. But that being said when people are unable to let someone else experience the same happiness from the art or let someone else give it new life, it will just end up being forgotten and the time would have been a "waste" (not a waste, but I don't know how to explain since English is not my main language). 

 

Yes, it's the same as a physical painting, but most of the time it doesn't sit in a storage room for all eternity. People find it one way or another and usually it wont to trashed but instead it will be resold or given away to people, who would be interested in it. At least that is my experience and what I see happening IRL a lot. 

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As someone who buys and sells art, I see from both sides of this discussion.

On one hand, I do personally allow reselling for the same reason @Cupsu stated. If someone gets bored of my piece I poured time, love, and effort into, I'd (reluctantly) allow a resell or trade of it, but only for less than what someone paid for it. I'd rather someone else use and love it than it just go in the garbage after I spent hours, maybe even days, on it.

However, I do understand why some artists and/or buyers are against the idea of reselling. It can be a headache and possibly lead to further problems later down the road, but as someone who does allow reselling (though I am fickle about it, as I said previously), I make sure that all information is provided to me. If someone's interested in reselling, I ask to know why, how much they're planning to sell it for, and tell them they have to provide the cost for the name change since they originally bought it. They also have to provide screenshot proof to me that someone bought this piece and they know if they use it after it's been resold, they'll be blacklisted.

I also have a copy/paste of my personal TOS that I give to the reseller to send to the buyer (that I only send once the piece has been resold, since my TOS is pretty public otherwise). If the buyer of the resell gives or sells the piece without informing me, the seller will be blacklisted. As long as you have a pretty tight-knit TOS when it comes to that, I believe it should negate a lot of the problems that could potentially arise, and you can always update your TOS as things continue.

Edit: By what I meant when I said "I send my TOS once it's been resold," I want to further explain that I only allow my art to be resold in my server, where my TOS is very public. The buyer just receives a copy of it, as does the reseller. The reseller just receives it beforehand while the buyer receives it after.


Edited by Groan
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@Alismora I understand that the artist has all the rights to the art and I think that's alright, but it's just my personal opinion about something I love so much. Art is something I value but the OCs and art I have either bought or made I would want to get new homes in the future if I were to ever feel unattached. They brought me joy so I'd be devastated to see them go to waste. 

 

I support that artists have the rights but at the same time I think resells or trades can happen the best way possible, like with a tight-knit TOS, like @Groan wrote about. I wouldn't go against the rules an artist may have but I personally would be sad to see something I had poured a bunch of time and hard work in, just be deleted. 

 

I wont say my opinion will never change though. It might when I'm more informed about the topic too. :pthumbsup:


Edited by Cupsu
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Honestly I don’t mind it at all I feel like when people want to resell or trade art they have some valid reasons it also helps art buyers financially sometimes! I had no money I don’t have a job, but valentines was right around the corner I was able to sell a piece of art I had and buy my boyfriend something special. Sure there’s tons of things against it, but all in all its art and even when my pixels are re sold or traded I’m fine with it, just means more exposure for me and I get to see my art more places UwU

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