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Discussion: Reselling/Trading Art


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2 hours ago, Cupsu said:

 

I may have been misinformed but even then I most likely would have the same opinion as I have right now on this topic. I think when it's stated that an artist puts so much time and effort into making a personal piece for someone, but that same art piece will be deleted in the end if the artist doesn't allow it to be trade/resold/gifted, it doesn't say much about the time that was put into it when it's tossed or put away for eternity. Don't get me wrong - the time put into art is valuable. But that being said when people are unable to let someone else experience the same happiness from the art or let someone else give it new life, it will just end up being forgotten and the time would have been a "waste" (not a waste, but I don't know how to explain since English is not my main language). 

 

Yes, it's the same as a physical painting, but most of the time it doesn't sit in a storage room for all eternity. People find it one way or another and usually it wont to trashed but instead it will be resold or given away to people, who would be interested in it. At least that is my experience and what I see happening IRL a lot. 

I hope that you didn't mean to insinuate that some / you would actually delete a piece if you wouldn't be able to resell it, because you wrote it here and in a later post... :blove:

I for example, am now using a DP that's nearly 2 years old and I'm swapping on and off to it. :guns: 

 

Nowadays a lot of reselling happens and I've seen it with my own eyes on multiple servers. It's hard to determine wether a reseller wants to sell art to provide them with a new home or to make profit from it. I can imagine a lot of artist are really wary of that. 

-

 

That saying, it's obvious that there's a wide arrange of opinions on the matter and that is okay. I think it's good that @Alismora brought it up for those that might have been bothered by the subject in question. :bgoodjob: So yes I'd say do not hesitate to share your opinion in any way because it's helpful for all of us!This will help me broaden my perspective on the matter and perhaps find a middle-ground that works well for customers and artists. :blush:

 

I'm still not entirely convinced as to why a buyer would resell an OC when you can order new pieces from them or just create a new OC. Some of my OC's are incredibly old and I've had them for a really long time and I could never sell them so my view on this is just entirely different because there's personal attachment to it that will never expire. Maybe it is an artist thing? I don't know. I really like characterdesign, so I like to draw pieces for people to sell and it means the world to me when they turn these pieces into their OC's. It means my job and passion inspires others and that is incredibly valuable to me.

 

I believe some artist like me state that they keep the copyright to post and share the watermarked art where they want but that you as a customer are able to use the premade, and in case of my work, turn it into an OC and may modify the OC it in any way you want. :cutefingergun: Just no edits on the artpiece that you purchased as a customer, because that is my work.

 

As an artist who doesn't like reselling values the worth of a piece by craftmanship (displayed skill), originality, demand and design, but that is an entirely different subject. Reselling makes it difficult to keep track for the creator of the work like Pey and Mattie already mentioned in their posts or Arianna about trust  in regards of deletion of the first DP. And I, will be held responsiblefor putting new watermarks on and and just having faith that the first owner will delete the now resold art. Really all of this adds extra administration for the artist.

 

I for one thought people buy premades (at least I do.) because they like the character in the artpiece and want to turn it into an OC of their own (pre-made) or just considered it a pretty artpiece usable here on AH or on IMVU because it matches their profile or personality in one way or another. :byes:

 

It just shows how much variety there is to it all. So keep the perspectives coming, thank you. :bgoodjob:

 

 

 


Edited by Martinus

spelling and grammar are a thing
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I can see both sides to this -mainly towards art for OCs; As I avoid DPs as much as possible

I use to get upset when someone would ask me to resell something of mine that I put my time into, and sometimes really liked the end result. It hurt my feelings to an extent. I felt like my art wasn't worth it to them to own anymore. However, I know view it differently. I would rather my art go to someone who has intentions to use it, rather than it sitting in someones folders/stash/imgur/etc. collecting dust and never being used. I personally do this. I won't delete art made for me, even if I got it from free shops, as it's made for.. me. But I no longer have intentions to use them and I don't think I ever will use these pieces that are in this folder of mine anymore. I am not a person who likes to associate with IMVU anymore. 160x220 art to me = IMVU art. This is why I no longer really purchase art on here. Even after disbanding from IMVU as a whole, it is still attached to it too much for comfort. DA is where I purchase my art now (Besides from a few artists on here like Luxor, PrincePol, Mishtqiues, etc.) because most artists on there are fully aware that 99% of their art is going towards a original character that it could possibly by sold at any given moment, even before you finish the art they commissioned you in certain cases. As someone whose spent a lot of money on characters that I have owned for years at a time, I feel like I should have the right to re-sell a character and it's art I purchased. As it's my money I spent? *Hoarding a character to resell simply for more money is a no-no tho* Obviously I have no intentions of getting more than what I spent. I go out of my way to avoid artists I know don't allow you to resell art or don't offer art outside of 160x220, and if I do happen to have an artist that doesn't allow it *as I know a few that I order from that don't allow it* I let the new owner know they cannot  use it - and it can only be used as a visual reference for the character / other art and I deduct it from the total price since they cannot personally use it and I am not allowed to resell it. IMO I feel like reselling should be allowed. This is why I am moving to DA slowly. People don't take reselling personal. We understand that you've put your time, effort, etc. into these pieces. But I'd much rather it go to someone else who has intentions to use it and not collect dust; as I said - I personally wont use it because I fell out of love or lost interest in a character I got the art of. 

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@Martinus I haven't deleted any of the art I have, but I know some people who have because they don't feel attached to it anymore at all but haven't been able to gift/resell/trade it ^-^

 

Also unrelated to the above: 

But even if an artist don't allow resell/trade, I think maybe gifting would at least be nice to be able to do? I don't know. The owner doesn't profit from it. :aww: I dunno. Maybe people feel the same about gifting as with resell/trade. 


Edited by Cupsu
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21 minutes ago, Cupsu said:

@Martinus I haven't deleted any of the art I have, but I know some people who have because they don't feel attached to it anymore at all but haven't been able to gift/resell/trade it ^-^

 

Also unrelated to the above: 

But even if an artist don't allow resell/trade, I think maybe gifting would at least be nice to be able to do? I don't know. The owner doesn't profit from it. :aww: I dunno. Maybe people feel the same about gifting as with resell/trade. 

  @Cupsu Hmm well  its still their art that they made for you  and  and the artists have the rights tho? i mean tbh yeah gifting would be nice your your commissioning a artist and gifting them the art in the form you get what i mean? and i mean just people don't like people reselling because they aren't really buying from the actual  artist you know? so probably point blank period just don't resell or gift if you don't know what your doing

 

(sorry if i edited it oof)


Edited by Silo
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2 minutes ago, Alismora said:

I also want to note that this is not a discussion about allowing it on Art Haven. I made this clear in the first place, but some of the recent posts have me concerned that this is what others think this is for. 
 

We can’t legally force anyone to allow their customers resell rights, it’s literally against the law, and we also have no tools protect artists from buyers who have the mindset of “I paid for it so I’m going to do what I want with it”, and the customers who eventually buy that artwork illegitimately. 

 ^ Shes not wrong and  yes it can be concerning that of recent posts of that and it is important to have this discussion but never try to slander the artist for be selfish because again if they fuck up they can be dmca'd even tho you paid for it

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i have mixed feelings about this! I feel that there are appropriate ways to trade/resell art and inappropriate ones. it's also very different when comparing custom and premade art. overall it's way too easy for people to exploit.

 

for example; i personally have a few oc's. i buy art for them, draw them, the works. but i have, in the past, realized i dislike one of the designs and just let this beautiful art sit in my sta.sh. i gave the entire character design and any art of the character to a close friend. i made sure all the artists knew and agreed to it. if a buyer reached out to me and asked if they could have permission to trade away the art i drew and were also trading the oc design, id be okay w it. That, in my eyes, is just re homing the art and design with no ill intent. if someone wanted to resell/trade my art of their oc but was going to keep the design of the character i would refuse. if they wanted to resell my art in general, id refuse. that seems like a quick way to gather new art and an easy way to get money.

 

i dont do premades so i dont fully understand how premade artists might feel. heres my two cents though. If you arent happy enough with the piece to keep it forever, dont buy it. Dont buy premades with the intent to trade them like pokemon cards. if you used the premade for 2 years and want a change, i suppose trading it away with permission for a different premade isn't horrible. if someone is trying to resell, that 100% seems like a cash grab. even if they resell it for 10-20 dollars, thats 20 dollars they wouldnt have had before.

 

i will never give a buyer permission to sell my art.  i will never give permission for a buyer to trade my art as a form of currency (i.e. "ill give you this drawing if you draw my oc")

 

tldr; if you want to resell/trade art get the artists permission. reselling art 100% seems like an easy way to exploit artists. if youre going to trade custom art, you must also trade the character. if youre going to trade a premade, you may only trade it for a different premade. 

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4 hours ago, Milkpaw said:

I can see both sides to this -mainly towards art for OCs; As I avoid DPs as much as possible

I use to get upset when someone would ask me to resell something of mine that I put my time into, and sometimes really liked the end result. It hurt my feelings to an extent. I felt like my art wasn't worth it to them to own anymore. However, I know view it differently. I would rather my art go to someone who has intentions to use it, rather than it sitting in someones folders/stash/imgur/etc. collecting dust and never being used. I personally do this. I won't delete art made for me, even if I got it from free shops, as it's made for.. me. But I no longer have intentions to use them and I don't think I ever will use these pieces that are in this folder of mine anymore. I am not a person who likes to associate with IMVU anymore. 160x220 art to me = IMVU art. This is why I no longer really purchase art on here. Even after disbanding from IMVU as a whole, it is still attached to it too much for comfort. DA is where I purchase my art now (Besides from a few artists on here like Luxor, PrincePol, Mishtqiues, etc.) because most artists on there are fully aware that 99% of their art is going towards a original character that it could possibly by sold at any given moment, even before you finish the art they commissioned you in certain cases. As someone whose spent a lot of money on characters that I have owned for years at a time, I feel like I should have the right to re-sell a character and it's art I purchased. As it's my money I spent? *Hoarding a character to resell simply for more money is a no-no tho* Obviously I have no intentions of getting more than what I spent. I go out of my way to avoid artists I know don't allow you to resell art or don't offer art outside of 160x220, and if I do happen to have an artist that doesn't allow it *as I know a few that I order from that don't allow it* I let the new owner know they cannot  use it - and it can only b

e used as a visual reference for the character / other art and I deduct it from the total price since they cannot personally use it and I am not allowed to resell it. IMO I feel like reselling should be allowed. This is why I am moving to DA slowly. People don't take reselling personal. We understand that you've put your time, effort, etc. into these pieces. But I'd much rather it go to someone else who has intentions to use it and not collect dust; as I said - I personally wont use it because I fell out of love or lost interest in a character I got the art of. 

 

as an artist who does mainly art that is not intended for imvu dp's and is quite active on DA, i still wouldn't allow someone to resell my art of their character. I don't think that someone else should profit off my work.id' be much more lenient if a previous buyer wanted to trade a character and my art was collateral in that. If you don't buy art from someone just because they dont allow reselling,  You are probably buying with the intent of someday reselling their art. honestly, if someone doesnt enjoy the art i drew for them anymore, thats okay! but just because you don't enjoy it anymore doesnt give you the right to profit off of it. 

4 hours ago, Milkpaw said:

I let the new owner know they cannot  use it - and it can only be used as a visual reference for the character / other art and I deduct it from the total price since they cannot personally use it and I am not allowed to resell it.

 

i do believe this violates copyright laws. the artist you buy from gives you the rights to use their art- not ownership. if they do not give you rights to resell it, they also didn't give the person youreselling it to rights to use it as reference. if they posted it anywhere, even as reference, they are violating the artists' copyright. 

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I dont see protecting our own right of the original art as a artist as "selfish" ??? 

If some people really think that as "selfish" then its really... rreaäaally wrong to believe that. Like Alismora said, the rights of the art is still ours and youre just buying the permission for your personal use. 

 

I find this examples given a good good example.

Quote

pay monthly for Netflix or Disney+, you’re only paying for the right to watch the movies and shows.  You purchase BTS’ latest album on iTunes, you’re paying for the right to listen to the songs. Some contracts grant you different permissions, but you never own the content, someone else does.

 

Like i understand if the art doesnt interest you anymore, you would want it to give it to someone else who is. 

I dont mind it giving for free since giving have always has been a nice gesture to me.

But re-selling it for a compensation after a short amount of time is what bother me sometimes... ^_^" 

I dont see them as the "same"

 

Heh.. i even bought items of artists on conventions or ordered personally because i like it and like i said it earlier, the thought of reselling of items i bought in the past never occured to me. 

😅😅😅

 

There is even art in my folder thats back from ... from 2010 and its still.. never trown away xd even tho my old laptop kinda went to heaven... and my recent laptop is getting there soon ... too 

I have lots o old art that i bought or for got free that i still havent used (waaaaa sorry my fellow artists!)

But still never occured to me to resell/give away the pieces xd

 

Sometimes like martini, i still use em from time to time. 🤔 

 

My spelling and putting in words might be off.. i just woke up heh

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@Jukisan I never tried to slander artists for not allowing resell/trading/gifting. That's not my point. I can take back what I said about them being selfish if it rubs people the wrong way, but it's still an opinion of mine. I was just trying to put another perspective on the whole reselling/trading/gifting aspect as I know a lot of people are bothered by it and many stay away from buying/ordering art from those artists. 

 

I think it's sad when art just goes to waste when someone doesn't use it anymore but has no way of letting it live on is my point. I'm not slandering anybody for anything but I'm sorry you felt that way about what I said. I can't please everyone and I don't wish to either. I only participated in this discussion because I felt, I had a view I could share that I have in common with other people, who may not be as willing to express due to the risk of putting themselves in a bad light or have potential backlash from it. 

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@Mattie Refering you to what I just wrote in the last post on the previous page about the selfish part. Since it rubs people the wrong way and it's really being taken out of context from the way I meant it. 


Edited by Cupsu
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@Cupsu i appreciate your opinions but it seems like you were saying that "we" as artists made up those rules about protecting ourself while its not. The rules were made for the artists by the law to protect them.

 

understand that as a buyer, you dont want to linger your old stuff around and should be put in a better place than your ol dusty folder, but please please pleaaase dont say its the artists their fault for not hauling in customers because they dont want to accept reselling or protecting their right as a artist and see it as a selfish action. 🙆‍♂️ 🙇‍♂️

 

 


Edited by Mattie
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As an artist, I don't mind reselling/trading the art I worked on. I mean yes I would be completely sad that they decided that they want to resell or trade but honestly, I know people grow out of their Ocs and stuff. So I do understand if you do not like the Oc or if you don't find yourself connected. I do make sure that if they do plan on reselling or trading, that they could contact me to tell me who the new owner is and if they would like any name changes. 

 

I've only like ever resell some old adoptables that I bought but I eventually never used them at all and i honestly don't know why. At the time, I fell in love with them and so if I don't have any use for them, then I'd try to resell them for a lower price or higher price if they come with more art. 

 

As a buyer, I never really used to ask permission for reselling or trading because back then I was like kinda of a newbie?? idk?? but I do understand how reselling/trading works now lol 

 

Like I said before, I only ever resell/trade art that I don't use anymore or like lost connection to it?

 

 

I just wanted to insert my opinion in here :-)

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i only buy art that the artist doesnt allow resells for characters ill never sell or of myself honestly 

u cant chsnge an artists mind its their right n thts how it b

i personally dont give any care if someone wants to resell something i made at all bc

yano they paid for it ima allow them to do whatever they feel is right with it

Dance Dancing GIF by yvngswag

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I don't understand this thread anymore... Feel like people are attacking Cupsu for no reason. You asked for opinions/views but are unhappy with some??

As a buyer, I take their rules into consideration and always go into buying art with a full heart. I personally have A LOT of art that i bought from people reselling, which makes me happy because I was never able to be fast enough to get it myself. I think it's all up to the artist!

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52 minutes ago, aly said:

I don't understand this thread anymore... Feel like people are attacking Cupsu for no reason. You asked for opinions/views but are unhappy with some??

As a buyer, I take their rules into consideration and always go into buying art with a full heart. I personally have A LOT of art that i bought from people reselling, which makes me happy because I was never able to be fast enough to get it myself. I think it's all up to the artist!

 

i don't think anyone was directly attacking cupsu. they jsut disagreed with their opinion and wanted to further discuss it. it truly was a fair discussion.

It was a very productive conversation about what the limits of an artist's rights.

i learned more than i knew before and i would assume everyone else involved too. I feel a lot of us agree that reselling art, when done right, can be good! 

reselling art has alot of cons, but it also has lots of pro's. like you said, you can buy art you would've never had the chance to buy. i understand how 

some responses may seem hostile, but i doubt that was the intent. alismora stated they really just want to know our opinions on it ! if they dont fully understand our motives , 

its reasonable to ask for context. 

 

at the end of the day, its the artist's decision and we have to respect that whether we agree or not! the customer isn't forced to buy art

from someone who doesnt allow for trades/resells.

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@aly I dont think we were specifically attacking cupsu? We just had a disagreement with eachothers opinions which can happen. I dont see how that can be "attacking for no reason" .

I respect her opinions on this topic and its nice to know what other people are thinking about this subject but that doesnt mean i can agree with some they have stated. 

This is called a discussion after all. 🤷‍♂️

 

 


Edited by Mattie
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8 hours ago, BrushYrTeeth said:

 

i don't think anyone was directly attacking cupsu. they jsut disagreed with their opinion and wanted to further discuss it. it truly was a fair discussion.

It was a very productive conversation about what the limits of an artist's rights.

i learned more than i knew before and i would assume everyone else involved too. I feel a lot of us agree that reselling art, when done right, can be good! 

reselling art has alot of cons, but it also has lots of pro's. like you said, you can buy art you would've never had the chance to buy. i understand how 

some responses may seem hostile, but i doubt that was the intent. alismora stated they really just want to know our opinions on it ! if they dont fully understand our motives , 

its reasonable to ask for context. 

 

at the end of the day, its the artist's decision and we have to respect that whether we agree or not! the customer isn't forced to buy art

from someone who doesnt allow for trades/resells.

I also learned new information that I’ve always thought was different. & I understand wanting to further discuss it, but I hope that isnt the intent like you said😄

 

1 hour ago, Mattie said:

@aly I dont think we were specifically attacking cupsu? We just had a disagreement with eachothers opinions which can happen. I dont see how that can be "attacking for no reason" .

I respect her opinions on this topic and its nice to know what other people are thinking about this subject but that doesnt mean i can agree with some they have stated. 

This is called a discussion after all. 🤷‍♂️

 

 

It’s not about what was said, I know it’s a discussion. I think it’s more how it was said. like BrushYrTeeth said above, I think lots of things were taken out of context/not the way they were supposed to sound.:boh:

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3 minutes ago, aly said:

I also learned new information that I’ve always thought was different. & I understand wanting to further discuss it, but I hope that isnt the intent like you said😄

 

It’s not about what was said, I know it’s a discussion. I think it’s more how it was said. like BrushYrTeeth said above, I think lots of things were taken out of context/not the way they were supposed to sound.:boh:

 

mmm yea i found this an interesting discussion so i wanted to be more serious :bhee:

not intended to be sounding like a bully/b*tch tho!  :bhaaa:

 

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19 minutes ago, Mattie said:

 

mmm yea i found this an interesting discussion so i wanted to be more serious :bhee:

not intended to be sounding like a bully/b*tch tho!  :bhaaa:

 

I totally feel that:lazeblush:thats why i hate texting because i always feel like it never sounds like how I want it said:lazecry:

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